Sean what a great contribution to the debate your comment of two days brought to the table ha ha!! I am sure Nick and his supporters will take on board your highly intelligent remark!

NICK IS AN ASSHOLE!!!

OK Alan. You feel that Nick Griffin wasn't given a fair ride on Question Time - I hear what you're saying and you're perfectly entitled to your view as I am to mine.

Coops,

How can we stay on topic, basically all we can do is try to counter your statements?

My sole reason for commenting here is that anyone who missed Question Time, reading your editorial, would believe that Nick Griffin actually said those things on the program, which is just not true and has to be pointed out. I watched the program so I know that he wasn't given a chance to enlighten us on any other subject, which is what Question Time is normally about. Apart from a question about some singer that had died he spent the whole program defending himself.

The comment you found hilarious about "where do want me to go ?" and the follow up about sending Nick Griffin to the South Pole would have provoked outrage had it been the otherway round. Nick actually said he was happy for the guy to stay here.

Crush has been corrected, not by me but by Timothy, a Muslim. Perhaps an apology is in order. I won't hold my breath, respect is just aone way thing to some people.

Guys, let's play nice and do please try to stay on-topic. Broadly speaking, it's a discussion about Nick Griffin and Question Time. Thanks!

crush,

You are the one that said I should feel free to wear a face covering, I merely pointed out that I am obliged to show my face in certain situations so why should that not apply to all people. As for getting facts right perhaps you should check yours before insulting other contributors, the Burka is NOT compulsory under the Qur'an. Timothy obviously read your comment without regard to your previous posting... hence he said your point to me was well taken when it was actually rubbish. My motorcycle helmet is a requirement under British law, I therefore think it wrong to allow Sikhs to just wear a turban on a motorbike. If they wish to ride a motorcycle they should comply with OUR law. Please remember, religion is a faith not an absolute.

@ Crush: Contrary to popular belief, the burka is not a part of the Islamic faith. There is nothing in the Qur'an stating a woman must wear a veil. It is a cultural practice from the fashions of the Arabian peninsula, which have continued into modern times, and, due to that country's 'take' on Islam, is often portrayed as a requirement, but it really is not an obligatory requirement, in fact, Turkey bans them (but your point to Alan is well taken)

alan can i jus say the helmet is not part of ur religion u wudnt wear it out on da street unless you had ur bike wid u!!! so get facts rite....ur very opinionated but wen it comes to da facts you dont know much!!!! the burka is part of the muslim faith!!!! ur helmet is not part of yours!!!

can i just say whoever said muslims are trying to change xmas in to the festival of lights should read up on few things....cos muslims do not celebrate the festival of lights...hindus do!!! i dont c y its such a big deal. no matter how much you people are going to protest its u multi cultural society and people from all faith and backgrounds are going to continue to practice this...so DEAL with it and get over yourselves¬!

Always glad to be able to contribute something, Coops :) I think without knowing precisely what those "radio intercepts" were, yes, it could certainly be considered an unconvincing reason, but, as mentioned, if that got Griffin to change his stance on the holocaust, it does not hurt to extend the benefit of the doubt, so thanks for retracting that assertion.

It might be mere semantics, but when he said "flaunting their perversion", I interpreted 'flaunting' to mean excessive public displays, which, as you agree, is inappropriate irrespective of the sexuality involved. Even the Qur'an makes the requirement of four witnesses for someone (male or female) to be tried for 'lewdness', so really, that's quite a tolerant approach to sexuality and behavior, as without four witnesses, the acts of the people are between themselves and God...

Thanks for your comment Timothy. I've had another listen to the show and he pointed to "radio intercepts" as a reason for changing his mind about the Holocaust. It's a reason - not a convincing one in my book considering the existance of the camps and the Nuremberg trials and the testimony of both Allied and Nazi soldiers and the meticulous record-keeping that the Nazis noted. But it's a reason so I'll retract my assertion of cowardice.

One thing I don't agree on: Nick Griffin's contempt for homosexuals isn't limited to "excessive displays of affection". It's not about that at all. However, I agree with you that none of us want or need to see inappropriate behaviour, irrespective of sexuality.

@ Andrew: Muslims are not "trying to change christmas into festivityof light", that is the work of BRITISH COUNCILS and the work of political correctness gone mad, where councils are, through self-loathing and 'white guilt', now afraid that any display of British Christian Values, will somehow 'be offensive' to people of other ethnic or religious backgrounds. Personally speaking, I've never liked Christmas. It's celebrated for all the wrong reasons, and, as festivals go, is a deliberate theft of a Pagan holiday, so people would be more willing to convert to Christianity. I was disgusted to see my local council putting Christmas lights up before the end of September. Not because I am a Muslim, but because there is no need to start the Big Commercial Christmas Push so early. As for your comment about swimming baths, maybe you should look back at the history of the UK and swimming, and you will see plenty of old photos where bathers would wear full body-suits to cover themselves. That is something called 'modesty'. It is not a religious obligation.

@ Coops:
You wrote "He now says that he's changed his mind and is no longer a Holocaust denier - but he didn't give a reason for his new stance. So here's another word: 'coward'."
That is not true. Griffin DID give a reason as for his new stance, but the self-righteous immediately pooh-poohed that reason. At the end of the day, the reason is irrelevant. If he has changed his stance, that is all that matters. A person has the right to change their mind, and people should respect that, and if someone states they have changed their mind, then people should not only respect that, but they should also ACCEPT THAT, unless any future conduct shows that they had not really changed their mind, merely claimed to. Benefit of the doubt... As for the comment Griffin made about finding homosexuals disgusting, I think there are many people who find ANY excessive displays of affection (hetero or homosexual) offensive. The phrase 'get a room!" does not just apply to 'teh gheys', but to ANYONE who feels the need to behave in a manner which is more appropriate in private.

@ Alan: There is no commandment anywhere in the Qur'an which states that a woman must wear a veil. The veil is nothing more than a cultural (not religious) practice, and a hangover from 1400 years ago when people were living in the desert, and needed protection from sandstorms. Personally, I find it disgusting to see Muslims (or any other ethnic or religious group) continuing to wear their 'national dress' when they are living permanently in Western countries. Why? Because it shows a clear refusal to assimilate into the host culture, and the desire to 'remain separate', and thus totally missing the reason for emigration in the first place: To experience a new culture and way of life, and people who behave in such a way are doing so, not because of religious devotion, but because they want to 'stand out' and 'make a [political] point', and people like that do nothing but perpetuate negative stereotypes... I do not find any difficulty in being a Muslim and living in the UK, and continue to wear the same clothes (Clarkson-esque jackets and jeans) I have always worn. I even have a full version of the Qur'an, on my iPhone, as well as an app which tracks prayer times, religious holidays, and other functions. Anyone thinking that Islam is a 'backward, desert faith', really needs to open their eyes to the truth about Islam.

Like I said, I am an advocate of free speech so I hear what you're saying about Nick Griffin and Question Time. However, if another extremist had been on the panel, a religious one maybe, I'd bet my Arsenal collection that most of the questions would also have been directed towards the point of contention rather than their stance on Kyoto or the type of fiscal stimulus needed to take the world out of recession.

Yep - no swearing permitted. Even I've fallen foul of that - I had a different word in the original text above that has now been changed to 'codswallop'.

Coops,

I am so sorry, I came to this board thinking it was about Nick Griffin's performance on Question Time. I didn't realise it was merely your anti BNP platform. You went beyond the program, the only thing that came up for Nick to comment on was about gays, he said he didn't like to see two men kissing in public, and I agree with him. That's not radical!

My complaint was that he never had a chance to air his policies, he spent the whole program defending himself. Apart from your self it seems, no one is any the wiser about his stance on the EU, on climate change, nuclear froliferation, the British benefit system or, dare I say it, immigration. From the Question Time session, it was DELIBERATELY a complete farce, nothing of substance was raised. We, the general public, wanted to hear for ourselves what he believes in to make up our own minds, not what journalists think he said in the past.

A point of interest on "clean", does the MSN's editorial guideline permit swearing???

Alan, I have not deleted arguments that are diametrically opposed to my opinion - I have deleted posts that contravene MSN's editorial guidelines. It's an important difference. All I ask is that people keep their comments clean - that's not a stretch, is it?

In addition, some of the things Nick Griffin, and his ilk, have said about black people, gays etc. is completely abhorrent to me. I'm not going to quote the worst of them - the quotes are out there...

However, one example. The BNP constitution states that the party is “wholly opposed to any form of racial integration” - so tough luck Cheryl Cole. Tough luck Dawn French. Tough luck Leona Lewis. Tough luck Lewis Hamilton. Tough luck to some of the members of Diversity.

And, talking about gay people, Nick's been quoted as saying: “The TV footage of dozens of gay demonstrators flaunting their perversions in front of the world’s journalists showed just why so many ordinary people find these creatures so repulsive.” - Well! OK. Tough luck Sir Elton John. Tough luck Stephen Fry. Tough luck Alan Carr, Graham Norton, Sophie Ward, Clare Balding et al because you're not human beings - you're "creatures".

With that as a basis, I am simply not disposed to go any further with their policies because they are already discredited as far as I'm concerned. I am not a Party Political Broadcast for the BNP nor am I obliged to be - if anyone wants to know more about their policies, look them up. Considering the provocation, I think I showed remarkable restraint in this editorial piece.

crush,

If only that were true. As a motorcyclist, when I buy petrol I have to remove my crash helmet before entering the kiosk. This is to ensure my face is recorded on their CCTV and is not free will. I have not so far seen the situation occur as I am only there for a couple minutes, but one day a Burka clad person will push the bounderies and walk in. (If her husband permits her of course). This begs the question ....who out of the two, in the current climate of unrest, is most likely to be hiding something, the motor cyclist or the Burka wearer?
Coops.

Your editorial might have been your opinion, but it was so biased that some of us feel obliged to correct some of the observations you made, which in point of fact were personal attacks rather than showing up the flaws in his policies. It is unfair to delete arguements that run counter to your opinion. There cannot be a 12 year old in this country that didn't hear the uproar the previous week over the use of the abreviated word for Pakistani, it was in all papers and on TV news for days. You, and others on here, character assasinated Nick Griffin but cannot accept that word. Says it all.
Told you that Question Time this week would be back to normal format. Was I right???

way to go coops! as for alan...nobodys stopping you from wearing a mask to hide your identity...feel free to do so....free will!!

Marni, I'm sooooooooo tired of the Black History Month argument. There would be no need for it if there was more balance in the education system. It's as simple as that. I really don't see the harm in children of all colours learning that black people were not just slaves.

Alan, my editorial revolves around Nick Griffin's appearance on Question Time and it is told from my perspective because that's what opinion writing is all about.

This is for Michaela,

My comment about the audience composition was not that it was handpicked, but thatit showed up just what a minority white English are in, this program after all, came from Englands capital city.

The questions certainly were a set-up. Question Time normally covers a number of subjects, and if you watch it tonight I bet they don't attack Jacquie Smith and take the Labour party apart on a single issue for the whole program!

Coop's editorial is, as Marni pointed out, very biased. Although she mentioned Nick Griffin asking brown skinned people for party funds, she didn't note the irony that the Muslim extremist party Hizb ut-Tahrir scrounged £113,000 from the British Taxpayer to fund its activities, which don't have much love of the British way of life, to say the least and not get deleted. Only a pathetic Government like our current lot would allow this to happen.

Once again the question of the Burka is being raised. A muslim girl insists she should be allowed into a college, that rules against it, wearing one. Any bets on who will win here?? Is this just the Klu Klux Klan uniform in black? Perhaps we should all wear masks to hide our identity?

Yes John Jackson you're totally right! To quote the famous poet Ella Wheeler Wilcox " so many gods, so many creeds, so many paths that twist and wind, when all this sad world really needs is just the art of being kind".